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 And this means?

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PostSubject: And this means?   Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:26 pm

By Shar Porier
Herald/Review

Published on Thursday, April 24, 2008
BISBEE —
"The good news is no Bisbee city employees will be laid off. The bad news is that sewer and sanitation rates for Bisbee customers will go up.

In order to counter anticipated lost revenues, increases in expenses and delinquent accounts, the finance committee composed of three city council members, the city manager and the finance director met Wednesday to preview parts of the 2008-09 budget.

Herald/Review reporter Shar Porier can be reached at 515-4692 or by e-mail at shar.porier@bisbeereview.net.
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Elysian

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:01 am

Here is the basis of the conflict and ugliness that developed on all of the forums and what has driven Democratic critics to attack a Democratic administration: the proclivity by the majority of those critics to have a personal basis for their "complaints". It is why their posts have nothing concrete in them and instead rely on inneuendo and assertion. They are not approaching an issue or complaint from any enthusiasm to make something better. They merely capitalize on all too common human errors to fuel and focus their own personal vendettas. From the slights harbored by Betty and Jeff for the mayor, to the resentment of Denise for Jack, or the offended sensibilities of David against those whom they call "the good ole boys" the impetus has always been a personal desire for revenge and punishment. It also highlights the tone of their posts. These people do not post to get clarification or openly discuss issues of interest, they find issues of interest as a vehicle for personal attacks. Scratch any post, ask any question, broach any issue, and while they are intelligent enough to quibble over phrases or words, they have no real ability to discuss the issue in depth. They simply don't know. They have not gotten copies of documents or researched past minutes or even attended council meetings to get clarification. They sit on the sidelines of Bisbee government like birds waiting for crumbs in order to jump on anything they think will offer a new vehicle for their personal animus. They directed their attention to Eric because he is a Republican and an easier target, and because he revealed the personal motivations behind their complaints.
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PostSubject: No resentment for Jack   Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:34 am

Elysian:

I resent that fact that you would, on a public forum, denounce me and assume I have a resentment for Jack Porter. As far as I know, you do not know me and you are posting information based on heresay. Do you even live in this town? I want to make it clear to anyone who reads this: Emotions ran high during the Porter Recall. We ALL made mistakes. I have forgiven and forgotten all. I have many scars from those two years as I sure Jack and Pat as well as others do. YOU have absolutely no right to present false information about me in regards to my feelings toward Jack. I would hope that you would have the decency to apologize and to admit that the information you have attributed to me did not come from me personally. Jack is running for Mayor and I wish him as well as all of the other candidates my best.
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Elysian

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:06 pm

Hi Denise and welcome to the forum.

I do not know what you believe I have heard second hand or what you believe the post to which you have responded here contains, but my remark that you bear resentment towards Mr. Porter is based in the incontrovertible fact that you filed a recall petition to have him removed from office. The petition itself is evidence at least that your resentment towards him and his job performance was strong enough that you felt that allowing for an intervening election to select his replacement wouldn't do and that you had to call upon your fellow citizens to unanimously condemn him and have him removed from office immediately. Unless you are willing to say that your participation in the creation and circulation of the petition itself was a mistake, then you are implicitly admitting that you believe your resentments against him from that time are legitimate (and thus exist). If you wish to establish that you no longer bear any grudges against Mr. Porter, then apologize to him for your attempt to get him fired.
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Denise B
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PostSubject: No Resentment toward Jack Porter   Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:30 pm

Elysian:

Thank you for the welcome. You are twisting many facts and words around. The Porter recall was three years ago. People have changed. I believe we have all grown, changed during those three years. As I stated, emotions were high at the time. I feel there is no sense in dredging up the past. You were not actively involved in the recall and I am not going to go into a diatribe of who did what. Although I took out the recall papers, I did not sign the petitions over two hundred times; therefore, to target me is to serve what purpose? I believe it is to justify your assumption that I carry resentment for Jack Porter. For you to make the claim here and now three years later that I harbor resentment for Jack Porter is to plant a seed in people's minds which I feel is unfair and unkind. It is not your place to determine whether or not I should apologize to Jack Porter or if he should apologize to me. As I stated before, emotions were high and we all made mistakes. It is not your place to determine how I feel and to project the wrong impression on a public forum. You must be a mouthpiece for someone else because why would you even say such a thing since you do not even live in this town? Yes, I took out the recall papers on Jack Porter. No, I do not want to ever be involved in politics again. In hindsight, I would not have taken out recall papers on anyone. Did you ever think it is possible Jack has resentment toward me? I don't know if he does and I would like to believe that he and Pat feel that same as I that we would all like to leave that part of our lives in history and to move beyond that. So, in closing, I have no resentment toward Jack as you state. By the way, if the recall petitions had gone through, the people would have decided whether or not Jack would have stayed in Office. I would not nor could not have had him fired. I like many of your posts Elysian, but I do think that you must be serving as a mouthpiece for someone else as you couldn't possibly know enough, since you do not live here, to form a qualified and accurate opinion of anything that goes on in this town. Have a nice weekend. p.s. even if we may not agree, I don't resent you.
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Elysian

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:51 pm

I have twisted nothing. You filed a petition. The only purpose in filing a petition was to have someone removed from office. Others may have signed it but it was your motives that instigated it, wasn't it? If you now regret having filed it then discuss that.
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Zasu Pitts

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:24 pm

Those who know Elysian would never ever call Elysian a *mouthpiece*for anyone. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: No Resentment toward Jack Porter   Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:48 pm

Elysian:

I do differ as I believe that you are twisting as well as putting words into my posts. No problem. I have nothing to say publicly anymore on the Porter matter. It is in the past and it is usually best practice to keep skeletons in their closets. I can't control what others may say during Jack Porter's campaign for Mayor. I certainly have no intention of fueling any fires. I believe that most people in town see the Porter Recall in the past and it will not dictate the way they see Jack Porter now. Take care.
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The Bisbee Avenger

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Denise B wrote:
Elysian:
...I have nothing to say publicly anymore on the Porter matter. It is in the past and it is usually best practice to keep skeletons in their closets...

Translation: "You are a big ol' meanie poopy-butt for bringing up something I did in the not-so-distant past!"
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sandman

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:41 pm

Some strange things going on here. Thinking
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Travesty
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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:59 pm

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:23 am

Before this deteriorates any further into an Eric-Etc pissing match, know this......

The petitions Denise circulated were RECALL petitions.
The movement is not listed in A.R.S as a RESENTMENT procedure.

And just for the record:
some 200 other people joined Denise in the move,
signing their real names and writing down their real addresses.

But thank you Elysian for your own "proclivity"n statement.
Denise seems to have a less strident attitude at this point, however.
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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:29 am

SHAR WROTE --------
“The employees will still get the 3 percent raise, but there will be a few positions that will not be filled as people retire,” said Pauken.

A city administrative assistant position, once held by Jennifer Graeme, who is now the personnel director, was eliminated as was a part-time job in the city garage. One employee who works in the garage is retiring from public works, and that position will not be filled, either. One new firefighter position has been dropped as well.


SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.
NO ONE GETS KICKED OUT BUT EMPLOYEES WHO ARE LEFT WILL HAVE TO WORK HARDER, COVER MORE JOBS, PUT IN MORE HOURS.
I AM CONCERNED THAT MORE WORK MIGHT MAKE JOHN CHARLEY CRANKY.
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Elysian

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:53 am

Elysian wrote:
Here is the basis of the conflict and ugliness that developed on all of the forums and what has driven Democratic critics to attack a Democratic administration: the proclivity by the majority of those critics to have a personal basis for their "complaints". It is why their posts have nothing concrete in them and instead rely on inneuendo and assertion. They are not approaching an issue or complaint from any enthusiasm to make something better.

The focus is that what constitutes a complaint in public or on the various forums are mostly based on personal agendas and private conflicts.
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sandman

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:13 am

Tioga wrote:
Before this deteriorates any further into an Eric-Etc pissing match, know this......

The petitions Denise circulated were RECALL petitions.
The movement is not listed in A.R.S as a RESENTMENT procedure.

And just for the record:
some 200 other people joined Denise in the move,
signing their real names and writing down their real addresses.

But thank you Elysian for your own "proclivity"n statement.
Denise seems to have a less strident attitude at this point, however.

I find this interesting. What makes this so traumatic Denise, and why even respond? That portion of the post wouldn't even have gotten a second glance if you hadn't made such an issue of it.
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PostSubject: See What? Where?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:23 am

Are you seeing Eric pissing behind every tree?
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TOM TOM
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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:25 am

My God Avenger, THEY ARE LOOKING AT YOUR ASS all the time. Don't stop too quick.
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Lady Zannah

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:29 am

TOM TOM wrote:
My God Avenger, THEY ARE LOOKING AT YOUR ASS all the time. Don't stop too quick.
Lady Zannah says "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
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Jean
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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:31 am

Lady Zannah, Where's the BUSH????
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Looking
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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:12 pm

yeah, sure, Sandman.

BUT DOESN'T ANYONE OUT THERE CARE THAT JOHN CHARLEY MIGHT BE TURNING CRANKY WITH ALL THIS *MAKING DO* IN CITY ECONOMICS???????
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Zasu Pitts

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:53 pm

Looking wrote:
yeah, sure, Sandman.

BUT DOESN'T ANYONE OUT THERE CARE THAT JOHN CHARLEY MIGHT BE TURNING CRANKY WITH ALL THIS *MAKING DO* IN CITY ECONOMICS???????
That is not my reality. Do not care. Sleep
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sandman

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PostSubject: Re: And this means?   Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:14 pm

Looking wrote:
yeah, sure, Sandman.

BUT DOESN'T ANYONE OUT THERE CARE THAT JOHN CHARLEY MIGHT BE TURNING CRANKY WITH ALL THIS *MAKING DO* IN CITY ECONOMICS???????


I CARE, I CARE. Just what do we do, to preserve life in Bisbee for the helpless masses?
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PostSubject: Something Strange   Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:44 am

Something is rotten in the state of denial going on. What is strange that the recall attempt would be remembered and discussed now that Jack has decided to run for mayor? Seems understandable particularly the way politics operates in Bisbee.
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PostSubject: People Voted Jack Back In   Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:51 am

Hey Sammy, what is so strange? After the recall effort, over two hundred people who signed the recall petitions had a chance to vote Jack out when he ran against not so memorable Drew somebody. The people voted him back in. The people spoke, they wanted Jack. What does the recall have to do with anything now?
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PostSubject: Nothing strange   Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:33 am

That's just what I mean. There isn't anything strange about it being remembered now that Jack has decided to run.

What I took from Elysian's post was that the recall was an example of how frivolous it was, not political, not reasonable, just based on an arbitrary impulse. Not unlike the same arbitrary and personal impulses that seem to drive every damn complaint we hear or read. Lots of emotion, tiny tiny content!
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