Background Investigations

It's the old double standard at work here. It's really laughable to hear the "administrator" come up with these excuses.

Yeah Eric, and speaking the truth about Pauken will get your posts pulled!
Dontcha just love "free Speech"???

Here's why the first amendment doesn't apply to web-forums and other private organisations: if you were to force an organisation to accommodate speech that violates its rules and principles you are violating that group's freedom of association. This forum doesn't want to be associated with vicious personal attacks and instead wants to foster an environment of relative civility to the one over at topix; that much is clear. However, even in this online community there is a forum known as Free Speech, which is virtually unmoderated. JH, you will have every opportunity to spout your pusillanimous bile there.

Nicely put Sephiroth.

It appears the strange ones have invaded this forum, and now there will be . I was really having fun here to. Maybe they will go back to those other mean forums and pound themselves silly .

As I've posted before, I already knew posts could be pulled here. It's the double standard I was commenting on.

As I've posted before, "Judge Scalia", I'm not Jeff Harris.
I used him as an example of the double standard here.

Skeptic wrote:

As I've posted before, "Judge Scalia", I'm not Jeff Harris.
I used him as an example of the double standard here.

Jeff Harris or no, my point, which you ignored, remains valid: Free Speech is virtually unmoderated and you are free to make any kind of topic or post in that forum, so long, I would assume, as its vitriol does not rise to the level of the civilly actionable. Here we have an Admin, who, in contrast to the administration of Topix, is not so far removed from the actual administration of the bulletin board's individual forums that they are unlikely to be responsive to complaints and unlikely to critically examine the situation before taking action. The absentee moderation of the Topix administrators allowed JH et al. to manipulate them into scrubbing from the forum's pages nearly any and all mention of him in a less than flattering context, because they simply didn't have the time to investigate his claims. In even starker contrast previously popular forums for Bisbee had a standing practice of simply banning dissenters outright. I would surmise that it is the inability of JH and his sympathisers to similarly manipulate this forum's administration that raises their hackles and not any real fear of mistreatment. Given that the Admin has removed the post you originally complained of (that being EF's post about Jeff and his chickens), the basis for your charge of a double-standard has just evaporated, not that this has seemed to deter you from repeating it. I for one find fault with this approach as it only empowers your lot by setting a standard that relatively innocent posts are deserving of the same administrative opprobrium as the kind of highly personal ranting Jeff and the gang are given to. There is a qualitative difference between the sophomoric and playfully satirical posts EF is in the habit of making of which the "chicken post," though a little tongue-in-cheek, was surely an example and the brutally hateful, relentlessly personal hatchet jobs JH and his cohorts seem to be prone to submitting. Nevertheless, the administration here has acted, not by the wholesale removal of the thread as was the practice at Topix whenever JH thought he was losing an argument and went crying to the administration, nor by banning the user involved as was the practice in previous forums, but instead by simply deleting two posts about which there had been complaints. Believe me when I say, Skeptic, that your whining of mistreatment is a little less than convincing given the history here. It would be my hope that you find it to be less effective in this venue in the future than you have found it to be in others. Nevertheless, as I said, you're free to take your diatribe to the segment of this board which allows for the sort of flamboyant ad hominem riddled mudslinging for which your ilk have come to be known, and you are also free to decline in the future from posting here entirely.

Skeptic wrote:

As I've posted before, I already knew posts could be pulled here. It's the double standard I was commenting on.

I think you just don't know how to behave yourself when you are in someone else's house.

I guess I should go elsewhere... I thought that this would be a forum to change things and get them going forward... all this turns out to be is forum for cry babies who have nothing better to do than hide behind keyboards and bash and criticize someone who posts on some other site. Why not stop the whining and bashing and name calling and all this other "childish" CRAP and act like adults and work to get better things done. Most of you sound like cry babies and Boo-Hoo'ers, There's what? 7 people listed as members in this rat hole and someone named admin is censoring... People are gonna constru whatever they want to out of what someone else says or types... you could go outside and say it is getting dark early and someone might ask what you have against blacks... ACT YOUR IQ's ... want to get a reaction... let this J. Harris not be the center of your "affections" some people love being the center of attention and all you children are just suckling at the teats....

I stand corrected... we have 10 registered users...

Tim Tim wrote:

I guess I should go elsewhere... I thought that this would be a forum to change things and get them going forward... all this turns out to be is forum for cry babies who have nothing better to do than hide behind keyboards and bash and criticize someone who posts on some other site. Why not stop the whining and bashing and name calling and all this other "childish" CRAP and act like adults and work to get better things done. Most of you sound like cry babies and Boo-Hoo'ers, There's what? 7 people listed as members in this rat hole and someone named admin is censoring... People are gonna constru whatever they want to out of what someone else says or types... you could go outside and say it is getting dark early and someone might ask what you have against blacks... ACT YOUR IQ's ... want to get a reaction... let this J. Harris not be the center of your "affections" some people love being the center of attention and all you children are just suckling at the teats....

Lady Zannah says "Gee Wheez Tim-Tim only asked you to bring the cake for the party. I guess I will ask Mac to pick it up. [b]

Quote :

Tim Tim wrote : I guess I should go elsewhere... I thought that this would be a forum to change things and get them going forward... all this turns out to be is forum for cry babies who have nothing better to do than hide behind keyboards and bash and criticize someone who posts on some other site. Why not stop the whining and bashing and name calling and all this other "childish" CRAP and act like adults and work to get better things done. Most of you sound like cry babies and Boo-Hoo'ers, There's what? 7 people listed as members in this rat hole and someone named admin is censoring... People are gonna constru whatever they want to out of what someone else says or types... you could go outside and say it is getting dark early and someone might ask what you have against blacks... ACT YOUR IQ's ... want to get a reaction... let this J. Harris not be the center of your "affections" some people love being the center of attention and all you children are just suckling at the teats....

What you are seeing is the pent up reaction (quite over the top) of people who have been harassed, stifled, and suppressed, for over three years, excuse them if the pendulum of freedom has somewhat over compensated for that prior oppression. It is a normal reaction that the oppressed when liberated, sometimes seem a little manic.

Well said, TOM TOM.

The oppressed, what a freakin' joke!

What you are seeing is the pent up reaction (quite over the top) of people who have been harassed, stifled, and suppressed, for over three years, excuse them if the pendulum of freedom has somewhat over compensated for that prior oppression. It is a normal reaction that the oppressed when liberated, sometimes seem a little manic.[/quote]

pent up reactions???? So what are you saying? the censorship was personal and not because someone would be offended???
You "kids" need some time out in the recess yard...

Quote :

[quote who="Tim TIm"]What you are seeing is the pent up reaction (quite over the top) of people who have been harassed, stifled, and suppressed, for over three years, excuse them if the pendulum of freedom has somewhat over compensated for that prior oppression. It is a normal reaction that the oppressed when liberated, sometimes seem a little manic.

pent up reactions???? So what are you saying? the censorship was personal and not because someone would be offended???
You "kids" need some time out in the recess yard...[/quote]

You had been talking about the obsession with JH which was what the reply was responding to. As to the other, read Sephiroth's post.

This is WORSE than I thought... Tom-Tom do you speak for all or is this nonsensical wisdom just more of your inane blathering? You look at what I type and try to defend your actions as being a result of being harrassed, stifled and suppressed for over 3 years.. my God!! if it were me I would have started this forum 2 1/2 years ago. You actually sat in front of your computer and "suckled on that teat" for 3 years???? I have only been here on this forum for about 3 weeks and I am switching to Southern Comfort... Nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!! could make me "suckle" here for 3 years. Go back and read my quote again... this is all so childish.... there's a guy over on republican forum who is worried about the stock market and his pension... did you happen to see how many posts he got in return for his post?? I am just asking one time, start acting like an adult that you are, and not like a child that you are. I certainly hope that you are not the voice of all of the others...

Tim Tim wrote:

This is WORSE than I thought... Tom-Tom do you speak for all or is this nonsensical wisdom just more of your inane blathering? You look at what I type and try to defend your actions as being a result of being harrassed, stifled and suppressed for over 3 years.. my God!! if it were me I would have started this forum 2 1/2 years ago. You actually sat in front of your computer and "suckled on that teat" for 3 years???? I have only been here on this forum for about 3 weeks and I am switching to Southern Comfort... Nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!! could make me "suckle" here for 3 years. Go back and read my quote again... this is all so childish.... there's a guy over on republican forum who is worried about the stock market and his pension... did you happen to see how many posts he got in return for his post?? I am just asking one time, start acting like an adult that you are, and not like a child that you are. I certainly hope that you are not the voice of all of the others...

Please, for just a moment, try to see this from another point of view. Here you have a town with some contentious local politics. You have a zoning and planning board member who has made it his mission to go after the mayor. He's loudly protested various measures at City Council meetings, he's filed a petition addressing certain issues that was discarded because of what are most kindly called "errors" in processing on his part, and he has fielded several complaints directed at the City administration. This town has a certain presence online and there have been attempts to have debate on these issues on various bulletin boards. First, one bulletin board was popular, but, being owned by friends of this planning and zoning guy, was so biased in support of his position that they outright banned all opposition. The next forum that became a gathering place was that of a theoretically neutral arbiter. However, this forum was not directly moderated and relied on reports from users to enforce its own rules. Additionally, because the forum was owned as a for-profit business, they were especially sensitive to even the slightest threat of defamation and for that reason this guy was able to manipulate that forum's administration. He would cry wolf whenever his name, though he is a public figure, was mentioned in any critical context. So soon as he was losing an argument on one topic or another, he'd write one email and the entire thread would disappear, not because these criticisms of him were in any way libellous, but simply because they mentioned his name or alluded to his job title. Meanwhile, posting anonymously, this man's supporters put forth the most hellaciously obscene personal attacks against City officials, questioned the Mayor's sexuality, inserted darkly personal innuendo into every reply, to the point that no member of city government took the time to post there, since any showing on their part would result inevitably in an interminable string of personal attacks. By comparison, the relatively innocent way in which JH has been mocked, making fun of the sloppy state of his yard, alluding to his free range chickens, seems tame. So, now that there is a forum that doesn't simply ban any opposition to JH, there is an understandable release of pent up frustrations going on. This forum's intolerance for the incredibly personal attack jobs JH and his friends are fond of means that there is finally a place where members of the city government can discuss their town's politics without fear of personal excoriation. Moreover, because this forum's administrator is obviously interested in allowing JH and his lot a public venue as well, even some of the more exuberant satires made by the Bisbee refugees have fallen under the axe to ensure that a level playing field exists. That desire to have an actual debate, involving both sides of this controversy, is why it has taken so long for this forum to be created. The Mayor's supporters have tried to have their discussions where their opponents could contribute, have tried with two different forums to debate these issues, and despite their patience and their efforts were thwarted entirely each time by their opponent's abject intolerance of dissent.

As to this being a "Republican" forum, I see no evidence of that. As far as I know, I am one of the few conservatives around here. The Mayor is certainly a man of the left and it wouldn't surprise me if plaster casts of Dennis Kucinich's ears predominate as paper weights at city offices. Wait till the national politics forum sees more traffic and you'll see what I mean, I'm sure.

you know I would quote you but that would be a waste of space, I'll try to get in here right after you... first off, as to the republican forum mis-quote "I am not calling this a "republican forum', I was simply addressing a rational posting by someone ( I thought that the posting was in a Republican forum" ... I can clarify this further by posting a rational reply to this person's post, which if memory serves me, has a posting date of Jan. 22nd with no replies. I will continue...

As to the main point of your rather lengthy reply, Sephiroth, I have played the "games" as they have been referred to, but I was led to believe that this forum was to be a legitimate outlet to try to bring some sanity back to the political landscape of Bisbee, I do not understand why that is so hard to comprehend. As far as government goes, politicians are fair game and should be considered so... If there are skeletons in the closet, then one should prepare for "spring cleaning" so to speak, same with "dust bunnies" under the bed. I mean look at Sen. Hart from years ago Sen. Kennedy from further back, and Newt who was speaker of the house. Further information has come me just now, so I will not make this post as lengthy as yours, or as long as I wanted it to be. You can mis understand all that I have posted if it makes your postings any more palatable to you and your friends, but I would suggest that you not "advertize" this forum as the place to be for anything sane in Bisbee. People come here to post and they find the same sniping, albeit, the other side of the road, as that which I hear is on Topix.

Tim Tim wrote:

As to the main point of your rather lengthy reply, Sephiroth, I have played the "games" as they have been referred to, but I was led to believe that this forum was to be a legitimate outlet to try to bring some sanity back to the political landscape of Bisbee, I do not understand why that is so hard to comprehend. As far as government goes, politicians are fair game and should be considered so... If there are skeletons in the closet, then one should prepare for "spring cleaning" so to speak, same with "dust bunnies" under the bed. I mean look at Sen. Hart from years ago Sen. Kennedy from further back, and Newt who was speaker of the house.

I personally see no problem with that. People have the right to bring up other people's pasts and records when those people are running for public office. However, as I believe has been explained in the context of this thread, this bulletin board is divided into multiple fora for a reason. In this particular forum, it is expected by the administration that personal attacks will not be employed, because its primary purpose is to discuss political issues in Bisbee, not the personal details of the politicians involved. This allows for those individuals to actually come here and discuss their agenda for Bisbee's government and debate their opponents on the substantive issues in a level-headed fashion without being subjected to a constant barrage of personal attacks. To that end, it is expected, it seems to me, that both sides will be civil and address the issues, not the personalities of the local political landscape. Thus, while it is perfectly acceptable for such charges as were made in the deleted post to be put forth, this is simply not the venue for them. There is however, a forum on this board that serves that purpose: "Freedom of Speech." In that forum, which as I have previously stated, is virtually unmoderated, it would have been appropriate for posts of the kind that were deleted to be made. Otherwise, any and all substantive discussion would inevitably be derailed by bringing up charges and scandals, some of which (like the one at issue here) have already been answered and addressed several times already, but see continued use as a diversionary tactic. By separating the policy from the personal, this board allows for both the public interest in the issues, as well as in the character of their politicians to be discussed with equal freedom.

Quote :

Further information has come me just now, so I will not make this post as lengthy as yours, or as long as I wanted it to be. You can mis understand all that I have posted if it makes your postings any more palatable to you and your friends, but I would suggest that you not "advertize" this forum as the place to be for anything sane in Bisbee. People come here to post and they find the same sniping, albeit, the other side of the road, as that which I hear is on Topix.

Well, I would ask for your patience with any misunderstandings I may have when it comes to your replies, because frankly, and without the intention of offence, I find your prose rather hard to follow.

Oh... so now you mock me?? I thought you were part of the click? Don't you and all the other playa's keep each other up to date? I thought I was told not to post until I speak to the "head master"!!