SAY WHAT JACK???

OK, I am reading this and not believing what I'm seeing. Jack claims that the magnificent seven are the one's trying to keep Bisbee as they found it????

Is he out to lunch? Has he not checked on his buddy's petition to try to prevent changes in zoning that WOULD have made forward looking changes to old zoning laws? Changes that would have cleaned up the junky yards and limited the livestock INSIDE The city limits?

What the heck Jack, do you know what you're talking about or which side of the issues you're on?

Either you're supporting the protectionist thinking of the chicken herder, or you want Bisbee to prepare for the future. WHICH IS IT?

I THINK WE SHOULD ESTABLISH A RULE ON THIS FORUM
BANNING IMPORTATION OF MATERIAL FROM TOPIX.

AFTER ALL WE'RE ALL REFUGEES FROM THERE, AREN'T WE?

DIDN'T WE COME OVER HERE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LIKE WHAT WE SAW THERE?

STOP IMPORTING TOPIX TRASH.
Please.

Quote :

I THINK WE SHOULD ESTABLISH A RULE ON THIS FORUM
BANNING IMPORTATION OF MATERIAL FROM TOPIX.

AFTER ALL WE'RE ALL REFUGEES FROM THERE, AREN'T WE?

DIDN'T WE COME OVER HERE BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LIKE WHAT WE SAW THERE?

STOP IMPORTING TOPIX TRASH.
Please.

We didn't leave there to get away from their points, we left there because we kept getting our posts deleted whenever we spoke our mind.

Not so! I'm claiming that The Magnificent Seven doesn't have a clue what it's doing, and is being led by the rings through its collective nose by its own employees. I'm also postulating that TMS has a built-in bias for "the way things were", and that their 'employees' are using that bias to mis-govern Bisbee.

Let me repeat: I am NO FRIEND to Jeff Harris. I do not know the man, and have no desire to; further, I hold no brief with his antics/tactics by himself or with Peter. I approach this, and other discussions, with no consideration of Mr. Harris. Is that clear enough?

That said: I would very much like Bisbee to go into its future with some idea of what the hell it's doing. My very strong feeling is that that won't happen with Pauken, McKinnon, McConnell, Charley, et. al. misleading TMSeven. But in order for those parasites to be gone, we have to begin by electing to the Council some people who have some appreciation of both what Bisbee is now, and what it must become. As I mentioned in the post you saw fit to import here, the tourism on which Bisbee has built its existence is also going to bring demands for thoughtful change -- as well as cleaning up our act we've not bothered to do in the past.

So: No, Sammy (whoever you are), I'm not limited to an either/or position. I'm looking at this as a person who has moved here from a town which exhibited exactly the same syndrome, on a MUCH larger scale -- and I saw what happened there. Bisbee is small enough (and I think self-aware enough) to avoid the fate of unrestricted growth and unplanned 'progress'. But it will require voters who understand that change is both inevitable and hazardous.

My apologies and regrets for breaking into Binky's personal litterbox, but this is the first time I've seen something here which demanded my response. (Side note to Binky: NO, I'm not running for anything!)

Hello Jack, Nice to see you again! We may not always agree but I love seeing you adding intelligent comments

Tom Tom, if we do as you request then you are denying those posting on this thread the liberty of the freedom of speech we came here for. If you want to control what is posted, go on another topic where there is more control. Personally, I see NOTHING wrong with bringing some Topix issues over here so that we all have more freedom to present our thoughts without the "I misrepresented myself Harris" crying to the Moderator and deleting every single post in a thread. I got real sick of that whiny and his which he must have told to the Moderator to get the threads removed. Again and again, I can't help but wonder why he would go to such lengths to cover up rather than answer some simple questions about his educational and employment background. In my personal opinion, if someone had that many degrees and had held respectable jobs, that person would be proud of the fact and not try to play games and hide .

Quote :

Tom Tom, if we do as you request then you are denying those posting on this thread the liberty of the freedom of speech we came here for. If you want to control what is posted, go on another topic where there is more control. Personally, I see NOTHING wrong with bringing some Topix issues over here so that we all have more freedom to present our thoughts without the "I misrepresented myself Harris" crying to the Moderator and deleting every single post in a thread. I got real sick of that whiny Hater and his lies which he must have told to the Moderator to get the threads removed. Again and again, I can't help but wonder why he would go to such lengths to cover up conspiracy theory rather than answer some simple questions about his educational and employment background. In my personal opinion, if someone had that many degrees and had held respectable jobs, that person would be proud of the fact and not try to play games and hide lies .

Did you mean me or " No TOPIX"...or am I misunderstanding you?

Hey TOM TOM, got my posters messed up . I meant to reply to NO TOPIX's post . I agree with your post.

NO problem JM. I figured that was it!

Jack Can wrote:

Not so! I'm claiming that The Magnificent Seven doesn't have a clue what it's doing, and is being led by the rings through its collective nose by its own employees. I'm also postulating that TMS has a built-in bias for "the way things were", and that their 'employees' are using that bias to mis-govern Bisbee.

If that were so, why, on one of the most contentious issues that has come up thus far, are "TMS" demonstrably on the side of progress and reform. I'm speaking of course about the zoning measures which sparked two referenda and, subsequently, a lawsuit from Jeff Harris. Here we have direct evidence of the city attempting to modernise, passing new zoning initiatives and creating a mandate to clean up the junk around town in the interest of creating a more modern, cleaner atmosphere, and what happens? All hell breaks loose. Who is it again that's trying to live in the past? On issue after issue, the City government has taken steps to move Bisbee into the future:

1. They oversaw the Tin Town Sewer Project: modernising a historically overlooked part of the community.
   
   
2. They oversaw the completion of a new Sewage Treatment Plant.
   
   
3. They're overseeing the Water Recharge Project, including the plan to recycle water for golf course use, keeping untold gallons of fresh drinkable water in the local watertable.
   
   
4. They've reeled in a $2.2 Million competitive grant with another $.5 Million in enhancements coming down this year for the Arizona Street project (and they didn't even need to go to Mexico to do it!).
   
   
5. There's the $1.5 Million Airport Paving project and...
   
   
6. ...finally, the Charette for city planning in Old Bisbee, which is, if anything, a direct testament to the City Administration's forward looking policies.

Quote :

Let me repeat: I am NO FRIEND to Jeff Harris. I do not know the man, and have no desire to; further, I hold no brief with his antics/tactics by himself or with Peter. I approach this, and other discussions, with no consideration of Mr. Harris. Is that clear enough?

It doesn't matter if you're his friend or not, you are, for the purposes of most of the arguments that take place around the web about Bisbee, consistently his ally in debate, which makes your accusations that the City is mired in the past, while your cohort is opposing a major attempt at modernisation a little incoherent.

Quote :

That said: I would very much like Bisbee to go into its future with some idea of what the hell it's doing. My very strong feeling is that that won't happen with Pauken, McKinnon, McConnell, Charley, et. al. misleading TMSeven. But in order for those parasites to be gone, we have to begin by electing to the Council some people who have some appreciation of both what Bisbee is now, and what it must become. As I mentioned in the post you saw fit to import here, the tourism on which Bisbee has built its existence is also going to bring demands for thoughtful change -- as well as cleaning up our act we've not bothered to do in the past.

So: No, Sammy (whoever you are), I'm not limited to an either/or position. I'm looking at this as a person who has moved here from a town which exhibited exactly the same syndrome, on a MUCH larger scale -- and I saw what happened there. Bisbee is small enough (and I think self-aware enough) to avoid the fate of unrestricted growth and unplanned 'progress'. But it will require voters who understand that change is both inevitable and hazardous.

My apologies and regrets for breaking into Binky's personal litterbox, but this is the first time I've seen something here which demanded my response. (Side note to Binky: NO, I'm not running for anything!)

Do you have any substantive criticisms, or will you confine yourself to vague accusations and general contrarianism? You sound like the Barack Obama of local politics: all theme, no substance. Where precisely is this backward-looking attitude you're referring to exhibited? Eric Fahrner can't claim credit for this place, but I bid you welcome.

Sorry, I got back too late to save you.

Quote :

"Forgive me, for I have sinned." Fahrter's Folly saw fit to pirate one of my posts from here, and so egregiously misconstrue it that I had no choice but to post on Fahrter's Folly -- and I feel terrible!

Their problem seems to be that they're down to only 8 users, plus all of Binky's noms de merde. Ergo, importing posts from Topix (where there is in fact the occasional post which says something; fancy that!) is their only recourse in whipping themselves 'up to a nervous excitement which bears a resemblance to intelligence.'

God knows what terrible fate awaits me now.....

Down to 8 registered users? Binky's many Noms? First you were wrong about how many users there were, claiming they were ALL Binky, and that it was Farthers Folly which is ALSO wrong. now you're reduced to having to claim that Eric is all the guest posters. Actually, that it isn't true either but saying that won't convince you or the four other people left over there.

Sephiroth, your post is thoughtful, pretty much right on, but leaves aside the main thrust of my argument.
TMSeven has in fact accomplished some things (including $1.5 million lost to a contractor), most of them by either scrambling for grants or being forced to finally accompolish something under State mandate.
The vaunted Charette is, I think we all know, doomed to remain window-dressing. What remains to be done, and what will only be done when someone is forced into it, is to address the many simply-remedied problems in Bisbee's infrastructure before some tourist gets hurt -- or before some kid drowns in the city's reservoirs. Such things as traffic patterns, street repairs, etc. require thought and a plan of action; so long as Bisbee is conditioned into an ad hoc response to only the most pressing problems, things will continue as they've been.

Meanwhile, what could we do with the money saved by NOT having a full-time attorney, a "Development Director" who barely has a clue about forward planning, and a City Manager for whom $100K is not enough to keep him from trying to appropriate a City vehicle meant for others? Perhaps we could even hire a competent City Engineer, and begin to deal with our decrepit infrastructure -- begin to prioritize our most-pressing needs.

Admittedly, I have not been here long enough to know the players totally. I do, though, see the same habits and the same scrambling responses here that I watched create burgeoning disaster in the city I moved from. My posts, and my thoughts, are based on that experience and a pretty politically-aware outlook, as well as a lot of conversation with various people around town (NOT Mr. Harris!).

I do not see or sense a citizenry which is thinking calmly about its future, or dealing with the challenges of remaining a small town while the world moves on -- and in!

Finally: thank you for a challenging response. It's nice to have someone to answer, rather than insult.

"Down to 8 registered users? Binky's many Noms? First you were wrong about how many users there were, claiming they were ALL Binky, and that it was Farthers Folly which is ALSO wrong. now you're reduced to having to claim that Eric is all the guest posters. Actually, that it isn't true either but saying that won't convince you or the four other people left over there."

Actually, I don't think there are that many over there. Don't know how many there are over here either. I just keep looking for signs of intelligent life on earth, and there's no longer much sign of that on Topix. You are definitely correct in that regard.

Frankly, were it not for the unhealthy fascination with Harris over here, I'd visit more often (that oughta tick some of you off!), but I just don't want to scroll through unending indictments and rehashing of old complaints.

Not finding much to discuss on the 3rd local board either. Maybe discussion is a dying art.

Jack Can wrote:

(Side note to Binky: NO, I'm not running for anything!)

I've noticed that you are certainly running AWAY from something.

Quote :

...Mr. Harris manages to plop himself in the middle of nearly ALL Bisbee issues, so discussing him is nearly unavoidable...

That is sadly true. ADMIN must expect you to perform miracles to avoid referencing the ole

Quote :

Sephiroth, your post is thoughtful, pretty much right on, but leaves aside the main thrust of my argument.
TMSeven has in fact accomplished some things (including $1.5 million lost to a contractor), most of them by either scrambling for grants or being forced to finally accompolish something under State mandate.
The vaunted Charette is, I think we all know, doomed to remain window-dressing. What remains to be done, and what will only be done when someone is forced into it, is to address the many simply-remedied problems in Bisbee's infrastructure before some tourist gets hurt -- or before some kid drowns in the city's reservoirs. Such things as traffic patterns, street repairs, etc. require thought and a plan of action; so long as Bisbee is conditioned into an ad hoc response to only the most pressing problems, things will continue as they've been.

Meanwhile, what could we do with the money saved by NOT having a full-time attorney, a "Development Director" who barely has a clue about forward planning, and a City Manager for whom $100K is not enough to keep him from trying to appropriate a City vehicle meant for others? Perhaps we could even hire a competent City Engineer, and begin to deal with our decrepit infrastructure -- begin to prioritize our most-pressing needs.

Admittedly, I have not been here long enough to know the players totally. I do, though, see the same habits and the same scrambling responses here that I watched create burgeoning disaster in the city I moved from. My posts, and my thoughts, are based on that experience and a pretty politically-aware outlook, as well as a lot of conversation with various people around town (NOT Mr. Harris!).

I do not see or sense a citizenry which is thinking calmly about its future, or dealing with the challenges of remaining a small town while the world moves on -- and in!

Finally: thank you for a challenging response. It's nice to have someone to answer, rather than insult.

It sounds like something...but when I read it, I'm not sure...HELP. Jack can you clarify what 1.5 million you're talking about? Maybe I am remembering figures wrong???

Jack Cannon on Topix wrote:

Meanwhile,back to topic: "A promotion"?

YES!!!!! Promote him, PLEASE, to another city! Get him the hell out of Bisbee! If he needs help in falsifying his resume in order to secure other employment, give it to him! Anything! Just get him outta here.

Here is an example of someone new to the area, who knows relatively little about the local politics and less about what the rest of us think. He walked in blind to an existing conflict, listened only to the most vocal and chose to jump right in. Now, he is giving advice to the City Manager, someone who is outstanding in his job and his qualifications.
Words of wisdom to think on Jack, Marry in haste, repent in leisure . That is also good advice when choosing sides in local politics.

Jack Cannon on Topix wrote:

Further on that note: I just noticed that I've been deemed a member and/or associate of the "Gulch Gestapo" over on the Fahrter's Folly board -- by no less an authority than Der Fahrter himself!

Next, he'll be accusing me of running for office -- again. Of course, he'll be wrong -- again, but when has that ever affected his behavior?

Ah, I see that Jackoff Cannon is reading this forum, and is commenting upon it's contents.

This pleases me.

Ah, I see that Jackoff Cannon is reading this forum, and is commenting upon it's contents.

This pleases me. [/quote] Flip Floppin'Jack Rabid is drinking the Kool-Ade. You are one gullible Fool.

Why, thank you for the kind words, you foxy wench! I'll treasure them always -- or until the next commercial, whichever comes first.

So CANNON reads the forum. Doesn't seem to raise his perception level though does it?

For example, he is so blind he didn't notice that the alleged "sonora" post on TOPIX (like some Bisbee Avenger posts) is on the wrong server. Sonora's server is based in Tuscon. He has only one and he isn't really computer literate. For example I doubt he would even know how to employ a proxy, a VPN or switch to a different server. Also, the mayor would NEVER directly attack anyone, he is more likely to make jokes or be self deprecating.

However, that "sonora" post does sound like someone else we know who has a long habit of impersonation, both to criticize friends from hiding AND imitate others.

A word of advice, Jack, slow down, watch things like that, keep an open mind, and think. Doubt us if you want but don't ignore what we're saying.