SAY WHAT JACK???

The Bisbee Avenger wrote:

Jeff Lite wrote:

Your offensive use of 'smilies' is but another facet of your general obnoxiousness in this conversation. The constant use of name-calling is, it turns out, not beneath you, after all. I should have expected no more; I did expect no less.

The 'smilies' came with the place.

As for the "constant use of name-calling" you claim... well, lets ask the person you've labeled "Skidmark" to weigh in on THAT.

Jeff Lite wrote:

For future reference, Eric: your tactics are not productive of good conversation. But then, you already knew that, didn't you?

I'm just meeting you where you are.

When will you FINALLY get it? You will never be able to control Eric. He is a free spirit, rare and wonderful. Not the fake, tie dyed kind, found only on weekends in Bisbee. He is what Bisbee bills itself as but falls short of. Why do you do everything you can to try and control him? You have never spoken nor written an original thought. all quotes and others ideas. Is this what you so envy in him? Stop trying to stick a lable on this wild child. He is Eric Fahrner, very much his own and unique person.

Jack wrote:

Elysian wrote:

I gotta say this is an unpleasant turn. Whether by accident or intent Jack is basically allowing Jeff to divert focus from himself to someone else. Is that what you wanted Jack?

I don't see Jeff poking his head up anywhere (I may be utterly blind to his tactics and traits, but I don't think so). What I do see is eric routinely diverting discussion on other topics into his obsession with the elusive and ever-anonymous Jeff.

The difference (as I see it, admittedly) between that obsession and my "obsession" is that I have little doubt that eric [u]could be[u] a valuable asset to almost any discussion, if he would simply settle down and do it, instead of relating everything to Jeff and trying out his third-grade remarks on us. He has become notorious for hijacking threads and discussions through those two tactics. I've told him privately, and I'll say it here now: were he to show consistently the mind he's shown on a few occasions, he would be someone worth his weight in ideas! Instead, he persists in devaluing himself through his tactics.

What I "wanted" is to have him as a valuable adversary! What I always seem to get is him as an enemy -- yes, I know: it goes both ways. What I "wanted" has absolutely nothing to do with Jeff. I think Harris is a nonfactor in almost everything these days. . . except the fevered imaginations of a few here.

But what eric has not acknowledged is the content and thrust of private messages between us, in which I tried to get him to understand what I've said here. Instead, I've been characterized (and demonized) as a "scorpion" and an "asshole". I do not feel that he has been honest or responsive in this incident, while he seems to have done his level best to foment hatred. Even when I responded to Pauken's post, he had to come immediately behind me with a comment which misrepresented my position -- and he knew it.

By the way, Elysian, did you make it to the Grand on Sunday?

Obsessed? The way I see it, he was trying to out the phoney so and so.

Boy Cannon is even a bigger jerk than I thought. He attacks Eric for months, calls him Farhter, attacks Elysian calls him names, trashes the city council, the city attorney, the city manager, basically everyone on this board except maybe his wife and Buzz, then whines because someone characterized him as a scorpion or an asshole? Is this old fart for real? Earth to Jack. Get over yourself.

Snooper wrote:

Is this old fart for real? Earth to Jack. Get over yourself.

Answer to question: yup
Answer to command: nope

You may ignore, take offense, applaud, vomit (or all of the above). You lucky person, life offers so many options -- some as yet unexplored, some as yet undreamed of!

My favorite Jeff 'Jack Cannon' Lite post was when he spoke for his wife and said she had been approached to run for City Council. Jeff 'Jack Cannon' Lite said his wife gasped (or some such reaction) and said "Can you imagine me with those people?" Jeff 'Jack Cannon' Lite, those are fighting words in some circles.

No doubt they are. But I'm glad you enjoyed, treasured, and remembered that post.

Jack Cannon wrote:

Let me repeat: I am NO FRIEND to Jeff Harris. I do not know the man, and have no desire to; further, I hold no brief with his antics/tactics by himself or with Peter. I approach this, and other discussions, with no consideration of Mr. Harris. Is that clear enough?

Sephiroth wrote:

It doesn't matter if you're his friend or not, you are, for the purposes of most of the arguments that take place...consistently his ally in debate...

I think this comment by Sephiroth explains what is going on quite well.

OK, Eric. I made the mistake of trying to sort this out between us, and through a personal message. You've seen fit to respond in public, apparently as part of the current "Jeff Lite" camapign. Your choice.

MY choice is to concede this board to you and your hangers-on. I will not further burden you here, and you people can go ahead and trash me in absentia. Live it on up.

Ok you two. To a neutral corner.

I recently went back over numerous threads on TOPIX looking for an answer to two specific questions. What lay behind the intensity of the conflict between Eric and Jack Cannon? And why was Jack so quickly lured to side with Jeff in so many arguments and why did he adopt the position that Eric was an unstable troll with an irrational fixation on Jeff?

The first thing I noticed in exploring these posts for answers to those questions was that Jack got upset any time a discussion on a forum was sidetracked. Jack labelled any such diversions as trolling. He coined the terms skidmark, Farhter and worse, against those people that he felt had diverted his threads and who were to him personally abrasive. I do not believe Jack is a bad guy, but he is a focused person with his own views of the world and the way it should operate. He doesn't entirely understand the internet and certainly doesn't enjoy the fact that forums allow for what he views to be excessive digression from the central issues of a given thread. Jack's irritation with such interruptions is entirely a personal one, stemming from a keen desire to intellectually approach that which interests him. I think subconsciously a part of his irritation is the engrained belief that an interruption, however brief, to a conversation is rude and whether from life experience or something else, he has been unable to drop that view, even though the internet certainly offers a different one.

When he started posting he didn't have any personal knowledge of Eric or pre-knowledge of the agendas that were swirling around Bisbee. Jack simply walked into a complex situation, with his own personal inclinations. For that reason, he jumped into the attacks on Eric with both feet. He didn't know the past history or the fact that Eric hadn't done anything wrong to be banned from the Bisbee Forum. He believed what he heard from other posters because their objections on their face seemed to share some commonality with his own sensibilities. Even after first hand experience with Jeff and his friends, Jack I believe found it hard to abandon that original presumption.

Jack to this minute does not believe that Jeff is a problem. He feels that Jeff has been largely neutralized. Lacking the ability to predict the future, I can only say he could be right. But simply because Jack believes it to be unimportant doesn't mean the person who was subjected to the insults and outright lies Mr. Harris has promulgated must agree. That is a conclusion that neither Jack nor I have a right to reach. Yet I will say that given the turn of events seen in the past several days, I doubt, if the situations were reversed and it had been Jack's good name, or his family's name that had been tarnished that he would feel any differently.

In conclusion, Jack knows how quickly an allegation can become fact, even if untrue, yet despite that knowledge he dismisses what happened to Eric, seemingly out of hand. He has continued to use the same attacks against Eric even after his admission on this forum that Jeff had a load of personal agendas against people. If Jack were ever really in that situation, given his reaction to criticism here, I doubt Jack would be any more forgiving than Eric.

I think that Jack looks upon the Forums for validation. This is one reason why he gets so upset if the topic he starts or issues he wants to discuss get sidetracked .

The biggest issue for Jacko was one of politics. Eric wasn't a democrat. Guess Jack never met a republican he didn't hate.

Don't I remember that his wife is a Republican? Bet he doesn't hate her.

That just proves how open minded republicans are...

just me wrote:

Don't I remember that his wife is a Republican? Bet he doesn't hate her.

I am sure she is lovely and a very equitable woman.

Jack wrote:

Elysian wrote:

I gotta say this is an unpleasant turn. Whether by accident or intent Jack is basically allowing Jeff to divert focus from himself to someone else. Is that what you wanted Jack?

I don't see Jeff poking his head up anywhere (I may be utterly blind to his tactics and traits, but I don't think so). What I do see is eric routinely diverting discussion on other topics into his obsession with the elusive and ever-anonymous Jeff.

The difference (as I see it, admittedly) between that obsession and my "obsession" is that I have little doubt that eric [u]could be[u] a valuable asset to almost any discussion, if he would simply settle down and do it, instead of relating everything to Jeff and trying out his third-grade remarks on us. He has become notorious for hijacking threads and discussions through those two tactics. I've told him privately, and I'll say it here now: were he to show consistently the mind he's shown on a few occasions, he would be someone worth his weight in ideas! Instead, he persists in devaluing himself through his tactics.

What I "wanted" is to have him as a valuable adversary! What I always seem to get is him as an enemy -- yes, I know: it goes both ways. What I "wanted" has absolutely nothing to do with Jeff. I think Harris is a nonfactor in almost everything these days. . . except the fevered imaginations of a few here.

But what eric has not acknowledged is the content and thrust of private messages between us, in which I tried to get him to understand what I've said here. Instead, I've been characterized (and demonized) as a "scorpion" and an "asshole". I do not feel that he has been honest or responsive in this incident, while he seems to have done his level best to foment hatred. Even when I responded to Pauken's post, he had to come immediately behind me with a comment which misrepresented my position -- and he knew it.

By the way, Elysian, did you make it to the Grand on Sunday?

Cannon obviously doesn't know that group very well and Harris even less.

I've noticed that chicken lips [aka Jeff Harris) is still posting, of course this nom de plume is alot easier to identify but even if it weren't, the basic content would give it away to everyone except Jack. Have you also noticed that Eric isn't on the thread? So how come nobody, including Jack, is objecting? Those posts aren't really addressing the mine issue and they certainly fit the description of snide comments just as "cute" as Eric's. In fact they even mention the absent Eric. So where's Jack? Pretty much the same place as the other habitual posters have been for the past two years. Selectively silent. WHY?? Because they don't care about content. They have become so entrenched in their thinking they no longer feel offended by abuses. It's all about agenda and messages. It is precisely that type of selective myopia that offends the truly open minded.

It is precisely that type of selective myopia that offends the truly open minded.

I suppose you think you're one of those "open minded" posters??

What a

Skeptic wrote:

It is precisely that type of selective myopia that offends the truly open minded.

I suppose you think you're one of those "open minded" posters??

What a

Actually, it takes no special talent to be open minded Jeff, simply an honest heart.

So...those who disagree or think you're an asshole are Jeff, huh???