SAY WHAT JACK???

I would like to point out that I think it is curious how Jack Cannon has on more than one occasion in his posts on Topix stated in not these exact words: that he does not care to talk with or has not talked with or is not friends with the

It is curious that eric didn't see fit, when he pasted in one post of mine, to include the one which immediately preceded it. Allow me to rectify his oversight:

The Eric Fixation wrote:
Jack, you are Eric's new fixation. First it was Sandy Upson, then Jeff Harris, now you with a little Buzz and whoever else Eric's paranoid personality feels like latching onto for the moment.
Boy, THERE'S a status I've been dreaming of!

"Actually, I consider it a bit of an honor to be hated by someone I consider evil and dangerous to the community. While I'm less than enthralled to be teamed with Jeff, joining a pantheon of Sandy, Tom Wheeler, Betty Lindstrom, Bill Elliott, and who knows how manyy others doesn't strike me as entirely a bad thing."

I thought the antecedent for his carefully cherry-picked post should be made clear. Now all you folks can do what you do so well, and go ape over what an offensive and gullible person I am. That should be fun to watch.

Hey Mars, we missed you at the party last night. Where was ya?

The trouble is Cannon, we KNOW Eric. He isn't a danger to anyone. He has been pulling your chains to get a rise out of you and he does it very well.
But trust me when I say he IS NOT what he has been painted to be.

Sorry to be disjointed, but the overlapping posts demand it:

I have (finally) met Jeff Harris -- and was not impressed. On that same occasion, I met some of the other "Gulch Gestapo" suspects for the first time -- and was not impressed.

Identify me with them if you will; I make no such identification. I will, though, continue to speak out about what my political and social experience has taught me about Bisbee politics.

I hope this is clear to some of you. To others (and you know who you are), it will not -- ever -- be clear.

OK Jack, I for one believe you. We all absorb some of our environment and you can't help but be influenced to some extent by things you may read or hear. I repeat my request. Keep you eyes and mind open.

Sorry, Zannah, it won't happen. Being called a "child rapist" and a "butt buddie" on these forums has somewhat hardened my attitude toward this (so-called) person you folks are trying to tell me is not so bad -- who's only trying to 'rattle my chains'.

Guess what? He did, and in ways which I find preclude a truce or a cease-fire. Besides, I've tried that on at least two prior occasions -- and eric goes back under his VERY favorite rock.

Would you like a run down Jack of all the things Eric has been called. Maybe you now have an idea why he hasn't been able to forgive and forget easily either.

How would you like it if EVERY TIME you posted you were called something vile over and over and over again?

Cannon wrote:

Sorry, Zannah, it won't happen. Being called a "child rapist" and a "butt buddie" on these forums has somewhat hardened my attitude toward this (so-called) person you folks are trying to tell me is not so bad -- who's only trying to 'rattle my chains'.

Guess what? He did, and in ways which I find preclude a truce or a cease-fire. Besides, I've tried that on at least two prior occasions -- and eric goes back under his VERY favorite rock.

The feeling is mutual, Jack.

Cannon wrote:

Sorry, Zannah, it won't happen. Being called a "child rapist" and a "butt buddie" on these forums has somewhat hardened my attitude toward this (so-called) person you folks are trying to tell me is not so bad -- who's only trying to 'rattle my chains'.

Guess what? He did, and in ways which I find preclude a truce or a cease-fire. Besides, I've tried that on at least two prior occasions -- and eric goes back under his VERY favorite rock.

Keep the door open even if just a little crack. If everyone had followed Elysian's example things probably would have played out differently. Lady Zannah will go into her trick bag and see what she can pull out.

I noticed on TOPIX that Jack seems to think that using one's name would make the confusion go awayr. The problem is there is nothing preventing the same person who hijacked the Sonora hijacking someone's real name. It's happened. I think a rose by any other name and all that.

So I guess we have to just stay on the side lines and just hope these two big ole' fighting cocks s don't peck each other silly.

Sorry I missed the party would have been great to be there, but I was partying myself. Isn't life great. Maybe now the will have a better idea of what little influence his letters to the Editor have over the voters. Or another novel idea for the that the voters can think for themselves and do a damn good job .

More -- probably extraneous -- clarification of my "G.G." affiliation/association. This is an e-mail I sent to a friend this morning. It perhaps will not change any of the scurrilous things many of you believe about me, but I need to get it out there because of the larger issues involved.

"So, a couple weeks ago, Sandy invited me to a meeting of a group to explore potential replacements for the Magnificent Seven. Showed up, and discovered Sandy, Lefty Lazevitch (sp? ex-mayor), Donna Pulling, Jeff Harris, James McPherson, and one other person whose name I never got because she didn't say a word during almost 3 hours.

This 'exploratory meeting' turned out to be just the latest in what was apparently a series of same-old same-old gripe sessions about what's wrong with Bisbee; they even had a list of grievances and problems they'd written on an appropriately scroll-like sheaf of papers.

I listened to this for about an hour, and finally (being the shy, retiring type that I am) suggested that listing the same old gripes was perhaps a counter-productive way of campaigning for change in Bisbee, and that they might profitable consider concentrating on candidates for change within a framework of what the group WANTS, rather than what it decries. I may have even mentioned (ya think?) that I had been involved very actively in campaigns at the local, state, and national level for almost 30 years, and that the negatively-based campaign seldom works -- I even, for god's sake, tried to relate the Obama phenomenon of hope for change to Bisbee!

To a rousing chorus of "yeah but", they went right back to Bisbee-bashing. The meeting convened at 5:30; at 8:15, I pled lack of dinner and left.

This has made a serious impact on my hopes and feelings. Sandy is a sweet guy, but can't run a meeting -- which in my mind explains why McKinnon could run over the Charter Review Committee, and why Tuesday's election turned out the way it did. Donna Pulling strikes me as someone who everyone would do best to avoid if they wish their cause to be popular. Jeff Harris seems (even more than I suspected) an obsessed gadfly, with so many personal agendas that he's paralyzed by the plethora of possibilities for preaching (like that?). Lefty simply wants to return to the Good Old Days, whatever they were and whatever their utility for the next few years. McPherson is a leftover 60s-style activist, without much clear notion of what to do -- but a very clear notion of what hasn't worked in the past, and so we should try it again....

In sum: I have met some of The Usual Suspects -- and they need to get over it, get a grip, and get on with it! Very disappointing, and it's left me with much less hope for intelligent progress around here. To me, it's apparent that the problems in Bisbee stem largely from the personal agendas of City staff unchecked by the Seven, and that change can only begin when the Seven change greatly. This year, there is a chance to replace four of the Seven -- that's a rare opportunity! And it's not gonna happen, and the Seven will stumble on, and time is fast catching up with Bisbee. And I'm sorta discouraged.

And that's the meeting I hadn't told you about"

Cannon wrote:

More -- probably extraneous -- clarification of my "G.G." affiliation/association. This is an e-mail I sent to a friend this morning. It perhaps will not change any of the scurrilous things many of you believe about me, but I need to get it out there because of the larger issues involved.

"So, a couple weeks ago, Sandy invited me to a meeting of a group to explore potential replacements for the Magnificent Seven. Showed up, and discovered Sandy, Lefty Lazevitch (sp? ex-mayor), Donna Pulling, Jeff Harris, James McPherson, and one other person whose name I never got because she didn't say a word during almost 3 hours.

This 'exploratory meeting' turned out to be just the latest in what was apparently a series of same-old same-old gripe sessions about what's wrong with Bisbee; they even had a list of grievances and problems they'd written on an appropriately scroll-like sheaf of papers.

I listened to this for about an hour, and finally (being the shy, retiring type that I am) suggested that listing the same old gripes was perhaps a counter-productive way of campaigning for change in Bisbee, and that they might profitable consider concentrating on candidates for change within a framework of what the group WANTS, rather than what it decries. I may have even mentioned (ya think?) that I had been involved very actively in campaigns at the local, state, and national level for almost 30 years, and that the negatively-based campaign seldom works -- I even, for god's sake, tried to relate the Obama phenomenon of hope for change to Bisbee!

To a rousing chorus of "yeah but", they went right back to Bisbee-bashing. The meeting convened at 5:30; at 8:15, I pled lack of dinner and left.

This has made a serious impact on my hopes and feelings. Sandy is a sweet guy, but can't run a meeting -- which in my mind explains why McKinnon could run over the Charter Review Committee, and why Tuesday's election turned out the way it did. Donna Pulling strikes me as someone who everyone would do best to avoid if they wish their cause to be popular. Jeff Harris seems (even more than I suspected) an obsessed gadfly, with so many personal agendas that he's paralyzed by the plethora of possibilities for preaching (like that?). Lefty simply wants to return to the Good Old Days, whatever they were and whatever their utility for the next few years. McPherson is a leftover 60s-style activist, without much clear notion of what to do -- but a very clear notion of what hasn't worked in the past, and so we should try it again....

In sum: I have met some of The Usual Suspects -- and they need to get over it, get a grip, and get on with it! Very disappointing, and it's left me with much less hope for intelligent progress around here. To me, it's apparent that the problems in Bisbee stem largely from the personal agendas of City staff unchecked by the Seven, and that change can only begin when the Seven change greatly. This year, there is a chance to replace four of the Seven -- that's a rare opportunity! And it's not gonna happen, and the Seven will stumble on, and time is fast catching up with Bisbee. And I'm sorta discouraged.

And that's the meeting I hadn't told you about"

Thanks fella for a very interesting post. May I say that I believe you still hold some misconceptions about this administration. The people involved really are honest, hardworking and trying to make Bisbee better. Are they human and do they make stupid mistakes, suffer disappointments, or run into brick walls? OHHH YES! But the difference between this administration and others is that these are honest mistakes and road blocks and not intentionally dishonest ones. Unfortunately even an honest mistake can look dishonest if people simply assume it to be so. I think after having attended that meeting you may understand what I mean.
I think so much of what the GG believe comes from past experience. No surprise there. But it has so slanted their viewpoint that their perceptions are set to CORRUPTION by default. Add that tendency with some other unusual personality traits and you end up with very entrenched and implacable bias; also, they tend to blur events and attribute errors from past administrations to this one.
Oh, and I would not judge Sandy's management skills in the context of that group. As I said, the people involved at that meeting represent some very unique personalities that by nature are "highly volatile and VERY different from those who sat on the Charter Review Committee.
But It would take a very long post indeed to address all your questions and I am certainly not the one to do it. I recommend two things. First that you attend every election event you can. Second, that you ask questions and keep asking them until you have heard both sides and have the answers that allow you to form your own conclusions.

Finally, do not judge any group by 6 people or one person. Talk to people, let yourself explore the old and festering resentments, jealousies and hidden agendas. The inner workings and back story has a long and muddy past. Oh boy does it.

Donna Pulling is one man hating fag hag. She is one hateful human being. She wanted the Porter Recall to happen so she lied about the reasons why Jack should be recalled. Once involved with the Recall and her, certain people began to see she just wanted to get even for Jack beating her when she ran for the Ward I Council Seat. The GG are very adept at talking people into joining their ranks on first meetings . There are people who have found this out about the GG and were very hurt and paid a large price. But, live, learn and grow is what one of the people I know feels about what happened to them. This person will have nothing to do with those people ever again.

Lady Zannah thinks of the 'Usual Suspects' as Vampires always in search of a fresh supply of blood.This time it is none other than Flap Jack. Lucky he got outa there with all five pints.

"Talk to people, explore the old and festering resentments" (god I wish I could learn how you guys copy & paste each others' posts, butI can't figure it out), TomTom says....

That's exactly what I've been doing ever since I came to Bisbee. I've talked to people all over town every chance I got, and I haven't much cared which side of Bisbee they represented. That got me both in trouble, and accused by eric of running for officesub rosa. Nothing daunted, I've continued to do that; the meeting we're talking about was merely one more instance. As someone here mentioned, I suspect that I did not sufficiently appreciate the Kook-Aid (that was intentional, folks), and will not be favored with further invitations.

But I'm doing my best to find out about the past and present of my adopted town, while being concerned with its future. I plan to live here for the rest of my life, and I do think I have some things to offer. So far, I'm mostly struck by the inertia, rather than the momentum.

And -- believe it or not -- I do not see corruption. I see imcompetence, the above-mentioned inertia, and the arrogance and arrogation of power of City staff. I also see a city severely overburdened with wrongly-allocated staffing costs and priorities. A full-time lawyer, and NO engineer -- in a city with Bisbee's problems and past? Gimme a break here.

Thanks for an opinion that is an opposing view but well written and without vitriol.

By the way, Jack,

To copy someone else's post..

1. copy the post

2. paste the post

3. In front of the part you just pasted add this [ quote = "Cannon" ]
NOTE: the "Cannon" can be replaced by the name of whomever you are copying.

4. at the end of the part you pasted use this [ / quote ]

DO NOT PUT SPACES BETWEEN THE BRACKET, QUOTE, EQUAL SIGN, QUOTATION MARKS ETC. I SPACED IT BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN VISIBLE.


That will do the header of Cannon wrote: and hi-light the quote section.

JACK I am so stupid. just Register, when you do you will find there is a quote button just like on TOPIX.